123ignition tune+

ted698
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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by ted698 »

Just created an Excel Spreadsheet to help graph the curves against each other - quite interesting actually - shows the 034 has a very sedate advance, and the Mallory mechanical advance curve (32adv) advised by Paul F above is a nice steady smooth curve (grey, grey springs) that's all in quite early! - might try that one next, as Paul F says the Mallory is recommended by John @ aircooled.net and he knows his onions!
Cheers, TED
123 Curve Comparison.jpg

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Re: 123ignition tune+

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That's a great visual.
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ted698
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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by ted698 »

Hi Jim.... yeah, that graph really shows the difference, the only thing about the Mallory curve is it starts quite low... will try it, but might bump up the initial advance a touch, maybe so it starts at 10/12 etc. Maybes even more, gotta watch hot starting if the idle advance goes too far apparently 👍, but it makes such a difference to idle smoothness.

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Bluethunder
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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by Bluethunder »

Hi,

Today I tried one of Ted’s curves.
Very happy with the result!
The car is running great.

Thank you guy’s for all the advice, I now understand advance timing much better.

Grtz Michel


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joannedoyle
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Re: 123ignition tune+

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ted698 wrote:
Fri Jun 12, 2020 9:03 pm
Hi guys,
Bought a Tune+ from VWJims bulk buy.... here are my findings/curves so far...
Jim has put some curves on the 1st page, but I’m not in full agreement with those (sorry Jim! 😆) . Using Jim’s/Paul F’s curve you never get more than 32 degrees total advance - (24 mech, 8 vac) I’m replacing an 034 vac advance dizzy, so this can advance up to 42-44 degrees at high vac.
Great info here. I’ve been running my 123tune+ for over a year now and tried lots of different maps translated from graphs on the net. All have worked but I’ve not really understood to vac setting and I seem to only pull a weak vac from my drla’s. Hopefully I’ll get a new map drawn up with all the info on this thread. Thanks

Ps I’m currently putting together a draw through amr500 supercharger setup (Dellorto dhla40 )on a mild 1641. The map I got is below. Please could you help me translate this to put into the 123tune+ map

Thanks
Simon
Max 24 advance
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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by mpop »

Hi
I'm going to fit my tune+ this weekend to a 1600, fitted with 36 Drla dellorto's. Am I right in thinking that I put the engine at top dead centre on number 1 cylinder, remove the old distributor, put the 123 in its place, move the body to a convenient place for wiring and vacuum pipe, turn until green light comes on. Then don't move it at all. Do I still use an anti pulse valve on the vacuum pipe? Connect up the app then put in a curve for the 123. Which one would you suggest vwjim's or the one for the 043? Is there anything else I've missed? I will then need to check with a strobe that it's doing what it should do.

Does the above seem right? Thanks in advance Simon

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Re: 123ignition tune+

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mpop wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:47 am
Hi
I'm going to fit my tune+ this weekend to a 1600, fitted with 36 Drla dellorto's. Am I right in thinking that I put the engine at top dead centre on number 1 cylinder, remove the old distributor, put the 123 in its place, move the body to a convenient place for wiring and vacuum pipe, turn until green light comes on. Then don't move it at all. Do I still use an anti pulse valve on the vacuum pipe? Connect up the app then put in a curve for the 123. Which one would you suggest vwjim's or the one for the 043? Is there anything else I've missed? I will then need to check with a strobe that it's doing what it should do.

Does the above seem right? Thanks in advance Simon
Sounds right, you don't check with a strobe though, the app shows advance.

Ted698 will be along in a minute to confirm, he set two up at the weekend, one on a 1914 and the other my 1776, both on the Mallory 32 curve and the difference to a standard distributor is night and day, more advance at idle and through the rev range.
Richard

1960 Single Cab Pickup “Barny” (resto thread - https://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic ... 8&t=122082)
1966 Devon “Hetty”

1980 Brasilia gone :(

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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by ted698 »

mpop wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 6:47 am
Hi
I'm going to fit my tune+ this weekend to a 1600, fitted with 36 Drla dellorto's. Am I right in thinking that I put the engine at top dead centre on number 1 cylinder, remove the old distributor, put the 123 in its place, move the body to a convenient place for wiring and vacuum pipe, turn until green light comes on. Then don't move it at all. Do I still use an anti pulse valve on the vacuum pipe? Connect up the app then put in a curve for the 123. Which one would you suggest vwjim's or the one for the 043? Is there anything else I've missed? I will then need to check with a strobe that it's doing what it should do.

Does the above seem right? Thanks in advance Simon
Hi Simon,

yep - you got it - make sure you are TDC with the rotor arm pointing to No.1 plug wire. I tend to mark the plug leads with a sharpie, just so you know which is which, as the 123 has a slightly different cap - firing order 1 4 3 2 - so no 1 you know, then lead 4, lead 3 etc going clockwise.
Remove old dizzy - put in new 123 in pointing roughly where you want it (note the 123 doesn't go fully down like the Bosch did) - hold the rotor arm against the lash of the drive gear (ie push towards battery) and turn the 123 body slowly towards the battery until the green led inside just comes on - then tighten clamp and that's it - its now at TDC - do not move it, or time it, or strobe it or anything - everything is now done from the 123 Tune App. Fit your plug wires as they came off - rotor is pointing at No.1, then 4, 3 etc.

The anti-pulse - not sure about - but if you needed it before with your Dells to get a good Vac signal I'd leave it in place.

I've found the Mallory 32 advance curve to be the best - but I took a smidge of Advance off on the MAP curve - down to 8 from 10 as it was a bit jerky at low rpm/high vac - changing to 8deg smoothed this out - it all depends how much Vac you are pulling off your Dells - the only other thing I did was add a touch more adv at Centrifugal idle to smooth the idle.

Create a curve in your 123 Tune App - add these numbers below - then write the file to your 123 and save the file in the app in case you want to fiddle, or ever need to rewrite it again.

CENTRIFUGAL:
500rpm = 0.0
800rpm = 8.0
1000rpm = 12.0
1500rpm = 15.0
2000rpm = 21.0
2500rpm = 32.0
8000rpm = 32.0

MAP (if using a vac pipe)
Abs kP 0 = 8.0
Abs kP 60 = 8.0
Abs kP 73 = 8.0
Abs kP 87 = 0.0
Abs kP 100 = 0.0
Abs kP 200 = 0.0

If your nervous about running 32 deg advance just knock the last 2 numbers down at 2500rpm/8000rpm to 30deg. - or save 2 files - 1 at 32deg adv and one at 30deg adv and you can swap between them and see which feels best - on my engine with Kadrons, the 32 is best.
Until we get one rolling roaded these are the best numbers so far in my experience and are a very good starting point.

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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by mpop »

I'm going to replace the spark plugs at the same time, should the gap still be 0.6mm?

ted698
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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by ted698 »

mpop wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 7:29 pm
I'm going to replace the spark plugs at the same time, should the gap still be 0.6mm?
yes - spark plug gap won't change.

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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by ted698 »

joannedoyle wrote:
Thu Jun 25, 2020 10:16 pm

Great info here. I’ve been running my 123tune+ for over a year now and tried lots of different maps translated from graphs on the net. All have worked but I’ve not really understood to vac setting and I seem to only pull a weak vac from my drla’s. Hopefully I’ll get a new map drawn up with all the info on this thread. Thanks

Ps I’m currently putting together a draw through amr500 supercharger setup (Dellorto dhla40 )on a mild 1641. The map I got is below. Please could you help me translate this to put into the 123tune+ map

Thanks
Simon 0C081D0B-9357-4625-8956-306E424B4F21.png
Hi Simon,
Sorry know nothing about supercharging/turbocharging apart from 100kpa is atmospheric pressure so anything under that is standard vac map - anything above your 100kpa line on your chart is boost (and I can see they are ramping down the advance to 24 or less) - so you almost need 2 maps - one for normal advance (maybe slightly less) up to 100kpa and a retard map above it.
I had some dealings with a chap called Sebastian in 123 Support - they were extremely helpful (I had some issues with the App on my Galaxy phone) - maybe drop 123 Support an email to see if they can advise further? - email contact I had was Sebastiaan Adamo <app@albertronic.com>
There is some info about running a retard map on their Advance Curve Tutorial support webpage - right at the bottom, but to be honest with you I did'nt fully follow it myself :lol:
https://123ignition.com/support/create-curve-tutorial/

Cheers, TED

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joannedoyle
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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by joannedoyle »

Cheers for the info
I’ll check out the link :)
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1957 dove blue kombi
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It's a f@#*!ng dove blue VW.



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readyboy61
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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by readyboy61 »

My current 009 is 180 out, will this cause problems with the 123, or is setup still the same
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Re: 123ignition tune+

Post by 8 8US »

readyboy61 wrote:
Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:53 am
My current 009 is 180 out, will this cause problems with the 123, or is setup still the same
It’ll be fine, just set the 123 to TDC and off you go.
Richard

1960 Single Cab Pickup “Barny” (resto thread - https://www.ssvc.org.uk/phpbb/viewtopic ... 8&t=122082)
1966 Devon “Hetty”

1980 Brasilia gone :(

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