Massive anti climax

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Nocky
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Massive anti climax

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So, yesterday, I helped a new buddy out as he found a bus he fancied in Scotland, but the transport company let him down, so I agreed to drive up with him and if he liked it, I’d drive it back assuming the purchase was successful. All went well, and we got home safe at 2am this morning. It was a 71 bay, and a bloody pleasure to drive, responsive and awesome brakes, drive straight as an arrow with great power on motorway.

Then today, I collected my bus from the partial resto (Ive had all nearside work done) (Offside is next winter) I drove it home with its .... / scary brakes, and wayward steering, and honestly felt so bloody deflated. I expected to have a smile on my face the width of the channel, but alas not. Am I alone in this feeling ?

Since arriving at home, I’ve started working out how much additional coin it’s going to cost before it feels safe to drive !

(servo brakes or discs on front, but what to do about the bloody steering ?) I’ve pinged Jim about the servo brakes as that’s got to be no1 job next, but the steering is appalling really compared to the bay I drove back last night. So, is there any solution ? I’m not a purist and not a show n shine type of guy, I want something that drives well and feels safe. Should have had my username as mr depressed lol
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Dougie
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Re: Massive anti climax

Post by Dougie »

The 71 early bay is not a million miles from your split. Everything that has been fixed and set up properly on that bay can be done to your split and it will be just as good. There is an added bonus. As I was driving home this afternoon a bloke whipped his phone out to film me pulling away from the lights. That doesn't happen with a bay.....
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Nocky
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Re: Massive anti climax

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Dougie wrote: Thu Jun 25, 2020 6:43 pm The 71 early bay is not a million miles from your split. Everything that has been fixed and set up properly on that bay can be done to your split and it will be just as good. There is an added bonus. As I was driving home this afternoon a bloke whipped his phone out to film me pulling away from the lights. That doesn't happen with a bay.....
Lol, I got waived at a lot while going to fill up today, a small light at the end of the long tunnel. I think it’s just that I’ve been waiting so long for it now, and was once again shocked at how poor the handling and braking is. I’ve spoken to Jim about servo, and looking at red9 wishbone steering following a message from stevep who went that route. Looks great but €3k ouch.

So brakes first, then assess next money drop after next years body work coin drop
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vwJim
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Re: Massive anti climax

Post by vwJim »

Same answer as I said steering vs brakes.

If it's scary, it's built wrong or worn out. You can make a split drive nice without spending £3K on parts plus labour.... A well set up split drives fine. R9d is a waste of money IMHO.
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Andy C
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Re: Massive anti climax

Post by Andy C »

Nocky, don't lose heart in your bus. I agree with Dougie - miles more smiles in a Split.

I bought what I thought was a "sorted' bus but I've spent literally months trying to sort out the suspension and the brakes. As Jim says, a lot is about how it's set up rather than massively changing the 'ingredients'. Ride quality, handling and looks are subjective and many people will tell you different things. The previous owner of my bus spent a lot of money on modifications but it was all for nowt as it just hadn't been set up correctly - a bit like buying a designer suit that doesn't fit properly!

On mine at the front the links were loose, the beam adjusters were at different positions (Mainly to avoid fouling the gear linkage), . The CE rack had a duff balljoint and wasn't centred correctly (I'm still not convinced about the CE rack though). Front tyres were too low profile and the wheel alignment out by a mile. Leaking cheap coil overs just added to the fun.

On the rear the rear brake drums were badly distorted caused by overheating of the rear shoes and a 'home made' spacer bar. My rear shocks were too long giving only 20 mm of compression before bottoming out and I needed shims made to reduce the negative camber associated with the CE IRS.

Gear change was like stirring porridge and someone had fitted the Buttys throttle linkage in a way that defies the logic of any sensible person.

Apart from the new shocks. tyres and brake drums it didn't cost too much to sort and I'm almost there now - just keep fiddling with the rear height to get it to sit right and have the ability to raise it when I have a 'full load' on the adjustable spring plates.

I have CSP discs but no servo - I'm OK with this for now as I've grown up driving older classics with no servo. I'm good to 'stamp on the brakes' but may upgrade to a servo when I change the hard brake lines next year particularly if I let my wife loose behind the wheel.

I've spent more time under the bus than driving it. If it hadn't been for lockdown this would've been really annoying. The most pain hasn't been in my wallet but in my ears from my wife complaining that I'm always 'under that bloody bus'!
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Re: Massive anti climax

Post by vwJim »

Nice analogy about the suit. Like that.

Andy all those things are quite common I'm afraid, though to have them all on one bus is rather special.

I dislike the CE IRS for that reason of having to shim it to correct the camber caused by the frame horn welded positions.
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jayvanman
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Re: Massive anti climax

Post by jayvanman »

A note about the stirring porridge for gears.

I fitted an empi quick shift (£16)

My gears were like that and I noticed that I had a leak from the I put shaft on the gear box.

Granted it was an engine and gearbox out job and it probably wasn't the cause of such sloppy. Whilst I had the gear box out I also fitted new shuttle cock bush but they seemed a bit flimsy.

The previous owner had wrapped gaff tape around the shaft until it was a snug fit in the tube so I 're done that and fitted new bellows.

It's made such a huge difference. I can clearly feel where the gears are now and I'm not reaching all over the place to change gears.

For £16 I'd start with and Empi shifter and read up on setting the base plate up correctly, it's worth the effort and an hour of your time.

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Re: Massive anti climax

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Screenshot_20200628-114156.jpg
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Andy C
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Re: Massive anti climax

Post by Andy C »

Thanks Jim & Jayvanman,

I've sorted the gear change now thanks. I fitted a Vintage Speed shifter as I needed more height and I prefer the look compared to the other makes. On fitting the shifter I realised all the plastic bushings and the rear coupler were shot so needed to replace them too.

I've probably been somewhat unfortunate (or a perfectionist) but its cost me more in terms of time than money. The ingredients of a solid, nice looking bus with the 'right bits' were there but just needed sorting and lockdown gave me the opportunity to get it right. I've also replaced the cab floor corners as the previous replacements were badly welded - didn't need doing BUT I prefer butted seam welds to an inch of overlap and a blob of weld every 4 inches or so...

To add to the analogy - if it was a suit it would be the equivalent of 'having it taken in a bit"!
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Re: Massive anti climax

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Have a servo fitted and adjust your drums etc. see what you think. You might not need discs, the servo is more important than the discs. You can always add discs later.
Mine was OK with drums all round and no servo. If they are adjusted up correctly they are OK.
My steering was sloppy, there was not a a lot of play in it but enough to make driving (especially on the motorway in wind) a trial.
I could have had the box refurbed but I fitted a CE rack instead. It's the best thing I did for the bus. I can drive one handed in a straight and steady line now.
My gears were sloppy. I fitted an empi quick shifter and even with knackered and missing in some cases (front bush) the gears were orders of magnitude better. I drove it like that for 5 years with a missing front bush. I only just got round to fitting a new one and it's better but the gearshifter made much more difference. All gears are precise and quick to engage.

I have a scooby engine so when that was done I also opted for front discs (CSP) and a servo because whilst the drums were OK I was adding a lot of horsepower so needed more stopping power. Just the fronts and the braking is excellent. No need for rears or fancy vented discs IMHO.
I also have Spax adjustable shocks all round. The correct length for the height of the bus.

Leaving aside the scooby bit none of the above was particularly expense but it now drives wonderfully. I know some people like the 'charm' of wobbly steering and bad breaking but I don't. The closer I can get it to driving a modern car the better.
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Re: Massive anti climax

Post by Nocky »

malum wrote: Wed Jul 01, 2020 9:03 am Have a servo fitted and adjust your drums etc. see what you think. You might not need discs, the servo is more important than the discs. You can always add discs later.
Mine was OK with drums all round and no servo. If they are adjusted up correctly they are OK.
My steering was sloppy, there was not a a lot of play in it but enough to make driving (especially on the motorway in wind) a trial.
I could have had the box refurbed but I fitted a CE rack instead. It's the best thing I did for the bus. I can drive one handed in a straight and steady line now.
My gears were sloppy. I fitted an empi quick shifter and even with knackered and missing in some cases (front bush) the gears were orders of magnitude better. I drove it like that for 5 years with a missing front bush. I only just got round to fitting a new one and it's better but the gearshifter made much more difference. All gears are precise and quick to engage.

I have a scooby engine so when that was done I also opted for front discs (CSP) and a servo because whilst the drums were OK I was adding a lot of horsepower so needed more stopping power. Just the fronts and the braking is excellent. No need for rears or fancy vented discs IMHO.
I also have Spax adjustable shocks all round. The correct length for the height of the bus.

Leaving aside the scooby bit none of the above was particularly expense but it now drives wonderfully. I know some people like the 'charm' of wobbly steering and bad breaking but I don't. The closer I can get it to driving a modern car the better.
I’m in the same club as you, I care not about top end speed or acceleration, but steering and braking is key for me. I’ll take a look at the CE kit, and I’m planning on a servo anyway. On a positive note, by gear change is excellent (Csp shifter)
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Re: Massive anti climax

Post by malum »

There are other steering rack conversions but I have no experience of them. Fellows Speed Shop do one.
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